| Title: | Strand Multiplier does not work with splines based hair |
| Category: | Crash/Critical |
| Status: | Unconfirmed |
| Posted By: | nildoe ( Nildo Essa ) |
| Date Created: | 25 May 2017 |
| Title: | Strand Multiplier does not work with splines based hair |
| Category: | Crash/Critical |
| Status: | Unconfirmed |
| Posted By: | nildoe ( Nildo Essa ) |
| Date Created: | 25 May 2017 |
| Description: | I made 2 tests..i created the hair using splines, then i wanted to use strandgroup to increase count on parts of the hair. 1. with splines it does not work 2. with standard hair guides it works |
| Steps to Reproduce: |
| 25 May 2017
#13299 | ||
 | Hi Nildo, I can confirm this is working correctly on my end as you can see in the image below. I created hair from splines and added an Ox Strand Multiplier on top of Ox Hair From Guides. I'm including my test scene here, please try it and tell me if there's something different. BTW, I'm using Ornatrix 5, which version are you using?
Jeordanis Figuereo (Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.) | |
| 25 May 2017
#13301 | ||
 | Hi (I bet you're gonna ditch me with all the questions and problems im posting, sorry about that :))... I tried again and this time I tried XFORMING, match Pivot and created a new spline and attached the previously created splines to this new one and deleted the new segment..it worked... Im still having issues with lucid, sometimes it sims the strand groups individually sometimes (most) it does not.
The button import spline from edit guides, also seems to not working, but import multiple... button does. | |
| 25 May 2017
#13302 | ||
| also Id like to know, is there a way to have the copies generated from strands multiplier affected by the parameters but having the roots "attached" to the scalp? right now the fluff, spread, and shift all work but they tend to have the copies "floating" around the original ones. Since Im having MAJOR issues with Hair Distribution not getting the result i want, I thought about using "Guides as Hair" and then having strand multiplier to fill up the empty spaces. If I try to groom the hair manually i dont get these issues, the hairs get distributed nicely...but it takes time and i have a lot of grooms to make, so that why using dazhair strips would be ideal as its groomed already...and the problem is that I have to animate parts of the hair..if I didnt have to, it would be perfect as "hair from strips" object is perfect. Another question is regarding "reference", what is the main advantage of "referecing" the scalp instead of using "strands from surface" directly to the main scalp object? forgot to say..Im also using latest Ornatrix v5, not nightly though..should I? | |
| 25 May 2017
#13306 | ||
| No problem at all, Nildo, that's what we are here for. I haven't been able to reproduce the issue you mention with Lucid, it's working fine here. Are you using the latest version of Lucid? However, I can confirm the problem with the Import Spline function.
is there a way to have the copies generated from strands multiplier affected by the parameters but having the roots "attached" to the scalp? Right now you cannot do that with the Strand Multiplier modifier, you will have to use it below hair level and use the Ground Strands modifier on top to ground the guides created by the Multiplier modifier. But maybe this is not ideal in some scenearios... Maybe we can add this feature in the future, thanks for the suggestion!
Since Im having MAJOR issues with Hair Distribution not getting the result i want, I might be able to help with that, let me know what problems are you having with Hair Distribution.
Another question is regarding "reference", what is the main advantage of "referecing" the scalp instead of using "strands from surface" directly to the main scalp object? Do you mean the advantages of referencing files? If so, you can have the grooming of a character in one file and "Reference" or link the hair object to any other scenes. Is that what you are talking about?
forgot to say..Im also using latest Ornatrix v5, not nightly though..should I? You don't have to use a nighly build if you don't need to. Usually, nightly builds are minor releases with bug fixes. So, if you are experiencing any bug you can try the latest build. Jeordanis Figuereo (Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.) | |
| 26 May 2017
#13308 | ||
| Thanks for all your help, you have been on top of my questions everytime, I really appreciate it :)....and at least you could also see that spline import has issues, hehehe...and yes I am using latest LUCID. Ok lets start with this video: 1. Can you tell me if if this SPLINE distribution is appropriate? to me it seems so but i maybe missing something... what i want is to have Hairs between these, in a "tight but even" matter like the pic Im also sending here, right now because Im using splines, thus there are no guides ALONG the scalp surface, im forced to use "GUIDE FACES" feature...it works to SOME EXTENT, as in, it allows for hair distribution BUT i dont get EVEN distribution, no matter what setting i use i get bald spots...that's why i thought that using "strand multiplier" would do it...but since it does not get attached to the scalp...it's not an option. :(. 2. The way that I think of this specific example is: ALL hair objects ARE FIXED EXCEPT for the BANGS (2), and the short Hair at the BACK (3)...SOO...My idea is to have groups 2 and 3 be affected by either CLOTH or LUCID (Preferably) and the rest just linked to the CAT HEAD (animated)...including the "hairball" at the back on top. With regards to animation...IDEALLY i'd like to have all things HAIR (SIMMED OR NOT) in just one HAIR OBJECT, to keep scene neat and organized, but if the right workflow is to have SEPARATE HAIRS (example, rest of head one HAIR Object and BANGS another hair object) and have these LINKED to the animated HEAD bone..well...so be it :(. its just that when I discovered I could use guide groups to separate SIM from non SIMMED parts WITH Lucid, i was overjoyed :)...but right after i discovered its not always simming :(, then i got put down :(:(. 3. After using "HairFromStrips" Object is there a way to DELETE the mesh that's driving the HAIRS? I'd like to have my scene Neat and Organized without EXTRA objects, especially because I would like to create a Groom library and see that i can use the grooms for other Characters in the future. What happens now is that when i finish using the strips as "Basis" for the hairs, if i delete the strips, the hairs also get deleted...it would be nice to have an option to "detach" or make hairs from strips "independent" of the strips. 4. Speaking of "HairFromStrips" (my favorite tool BTW)...right now it's the ONLY way I found to "deal" with issue on point 1 (tight and even), and this is fine if THAT part of the Hair does not need animating with dynamics, but it starts to be problematic when you want to animate "group 2" (Bangs) for example...because then you would have Many hairs and sim would be slow using something like CLOTH MOD. ------ Regarding "REFERENCE" I meant how in your's and Michael's examples, you guys seem to create GUIDES from a REFERENCE OBJECT (Not file) in the same scene, kinda like an instanced copy, but its not instanced you know? Even when using the "Quick Hair" for example, the scalp or whatever object, get copied and the copy reference is the one that is used for grooming. Again I ask because I like my scenes as neat as possible, and doing it this way..it KINDA FEELS like Im having "DUPLICATE" Scalps :)...if this is the best way then so be it, and if it is, after grooming the copy, is it OK to delete the original SCALP?
Regarding Nightlies, it would be nice if we cold know what bugs were fixed, to know if it helps installing it..as it is now..I am experiecing these anoying bugs but i dont know if they are adressed in the nightlies and i wouldnt want to bother you guys everytime a nightly is released...plus the notion of nightlies seem to be test releases that may even damage a production file, as it can fix bugs but may introduce other bugs no? :)...I may be wrong about this. | |
| 26 May 2017
#13310 | ||
| Hi Nildo, 1. Sometimes you have to find the right combination between Root Distribution, Interpolation Space and Interpolation Guide Count. I could give you some number but is better if you experiment for your self and maybe take a look into the HairFromGuides documentation to understand each of these options. Once you understand these options you will spend less time trying to make the hair look right. Also, our tutorials cover a wide range of workflows: I don't know if you have seen THIS ONE but I think is really helpful. The "Use Guide Faces" option should do the work here if you have the right settings, maybe you just have to increase the hair count. Anyways, I can take a look to your scene and give you some advices if you want. 2. I don't see why you can't have three hair objects for this hairstyle, in fact, it would be easier for you to accomplishe the hairstyle you are looking for, with better hair distribution. About Lucid and Strand Groups, unfortunately (Or fortunately) I haven't been able to reproduce this bug, is working perfectly fine here, I even tried usen more than three groups and it works just fine. If we were able to reproduce this will be easier to fix it. 3. HairFromMeshStrips are dependent on the polygon from which there were created, this is by design, the point of this modifier is to be able to groom the hair by manipulating polygons instead of guides or splines. One thing you can do is convert the HairFromMeshStrips to guides, this way they will not be attached to the polygons anymore, or maybe you can bake the hair. 4. Maybe I should take a look into your scene, I might be able to give you some advice. *Reference* This is what we call "Distribution Surface" or Scalp Mesh: The mesh we use to generate the guides or to attach the splines. Is that What you mean? I don't think the Quick Hair function will duplicate anything on the scene. This button just generate guides and hair from the selected mesh. Quick hair is duplicating objects in your scene? that's strange. ussualy I duplicate or extract part of the hair to use as a scalp because I have more control over the hair, Ox generate less guides and some times I don't have to paint any extra maps for the hair (Distribution maps for example). Also, a extracted scalp can be linked to any other character, this way I can transplant hair from one character to another just by adapting the scalp mesh or distribution mesh. Another reason is, if the head geometry change the guide layout will be broken because Ox guides are geometry dependent (That's the reason why you should not delete the scalp), having a separate scalp will avoid this kind of problems in the future. You can groom the hair using a scalp mesh and then ground the guides to the head of the character and delete the scalp, but again, you'll have to paint a distribution mesh for hair AND guides.
*Nightlies* The nightly build don't include release notes, we only include release notes in major releases (Every two weeks or so). Usually we fix bugs whithing a few days and then I notify the user who reported said bug and indicate them which build have the fix. Unfortunately we can't fix what we can't reproduce, this is why has been hard to address the bugs you have been reporting. Jeordanis Figuereo (Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.) | |
| 26 May 2017
#13312 | ||
| I have an update about the Import Spline issue. This is actually not a bug, we were not using it right and the right way to use it was not documented till now: Click Import Spline, select a spline, then click the distribution mesh everywhere you want to insert the spline, drop the tool with right click and you are done. If you want to import the Spline exactly where it is without having to click on the distribution mesh, use Import Multiple Spline and select just one. Jeordanis Figuereo (Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.) | |
| 26 May 2017
#13313 | ||
| Hi! :)... I will prepare a scene to send you regarding lucid. as for the reference..when i mean "duplicate", i mean for example this: 1.Take a scalp object 2.Apply Quick Hair to it -- hair gets created and you'll see that in the stack "EDITABLE POLY" is now Bold, as if it was an instanced copy. 3.If you select now the Object "Scalp_Hair" (this object is created once u click the original scalp), and if u delete all modifiers that make the hair, you will end up having a second scalp..just like the ORIGINAL one..this is what i mean. please see my video the Maya example is a good one thanks...i had seen it, but will study it further, but it does not apply to my case because in that example no animation is required as it does not have any loose hairs. 4. As for having more than one Hair object being good or not, i just wanted to know if that is a normal workflow...i dont have a problem with having more than 1 hair object that makes the groom :). 5. thanks for explaining the nightlies. I will try to prepare a scene over the weekend to send it to you.
thanks!!! | |
| 26 May 2017
#13314 | ||
| Cool, thanks. Now I understand what you mean by reference. Yes, this shouldn't represent any problem for you. The reference object will be read as you hair object anyway. The Maya video is to illustrate the idea of how you can layout the splines and test with different distribution methods, I hope is useful for you in some way because in the video I'm doing something similar to you. Having more than one hair object is perfectly aceptable and a normal practice, this help a lot to control animation. Sometimes a single hairstyle can have 5 hair objects, it will all depent on what you are trying to do. Sometimes is better to break down complex hairstyles in different objects. I'll be waiting for the scene. Take care. Jeordanis Figuereo (Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.) | |
| 27 May 2017
#13324 | ||
| Hi Jeordanis.. please see dropbox link for files https://www.dropbox.com/s/g9mmzry4cqcrf0d/Hairs.rar?dl=0
Also How would you setup for animation the Rasta ponytail image? Your maya video is very interesting thanks alot..you are a great artist! :) Now I only need to know how to do that and APPLY ANIMATION :). | |
