Summary

Title:No realtime change in OX Dynamics + Jittering ! Max 2017 x64
Category:Workflow
Status:Confirmed
Posted By:misk ( Jean-Pierre Abita )
Date Created:3 January 2018

Problem

Description:

Hi .. even with the simplest scene ( a ball - 10 cm diameter and 16 cm hair [guides from surface]) the simulation in MassFx doesnt work properly ... ! (jittering.. hair trembling ).

Furthermore, it's absolutely not like in the Ephere video on Dynamics... there's absolutely no feeback when changing global spring parameters ... nor the others ones ( excect cranking the damping very high .. but everything is going crazy though ... )

Steps to Reproduce:

As in the video from EPhere .. on dynamics ( part 1) .

Forgot to mention .. I'm under max 2017 SP3

Hi Jean-Pierre,

I just tried to change some parameters on OXDynamics modifier while running the simulation and it's working fine here, I get real-time feedback as in the video you mentioned.

In this gif I'm changing the Global Spring parameter, see how the hair reacts instantly:

 

And in this gif I'm changing the Global Limit:

Maybe I can take a look into your scene if you want some help.

 


Attached Files:
Image 1Image 2

Jeordanis Figuereo (Social Media Manager, Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.)

Hello Jeordanis,

Thx for the quick answer !!

I send you a file

The scale seems ok ... and the hairs are  8 cm long


Attached Files:

>Dynamics not working04.max (749568 bytes),

Things seems to change real time when I tweak the hair density parameter

Hi Jean-Pierre,

Thank you for the file. Your scene it's working fine here, I get feedback in real-time, though the change on parameter is not drastic because the hair is very short (8.0cm or 3.14 inches), but it's definetively working.

Jeordanis Figuereo (Social Media Manager, Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.)

Here are 2 videos showing the same things you did in the GIFs with no effects


Attached Files:

>global limit.avi (5795840 bytes), >global spring.avi (5660672 bytes),

Are you in max2017 SP3 ? or maybe max 2018 ... ?

I'm using Max 2018.2 but should not make any difference. Can you try with longer hairs or guides?

Jeordanis Figuereo (Social Media Manager, Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.)

Hello Jeordanis,

Seems that V6 of Ornatrix was causing the problem. Uninstalled it and re installed the v5. So The realtime worked BUT ...

I've tried with longer Hairs ( 50cm ) > if you don't tweak the Wisp Parameter.. hairs drops BUT jingle like electric nerves

 


Attached Files:
Image 1

Then ... using Automatic Wisp .. it's better though (but I don't remember you're doing that in the Dynamics Video ?)


Attached Files:
Image 1

Then .. if you Use Ornatrix own "Long Springy Hair" .. no tweaking .. Hair Jitters and Jingles ...

And if you use "Automatic Wisp" .... --->  BAD everything goes crazy !


Attached Files:
Image 1

If you put 1 cm for the Wisps ... it doesnt goes mad .. BUT thats really not springy at all ( more like Sllooooow cooked Spaghetti )

 


Attached Files:
Image 1

The problem for me.. is that I'm working on a short film ..(15 minutes ) ..it's been 6 years now . (!!!) .. (25% of the animation is done ..)

I've started in max 2012 .. and I bought Hairtrix....  it was ... A cinch !! so easy the simulation where quick without even a tweak !!

I'm using Vray 3.6 .. but IT'S NOT AVAILABLE for Max 2012 ! Nor Hairtrix is avalaible for Max 2013 and above.

So being stuck .. i've decided to move to max 2017 ..everything perfect ( wonderful render of Ornatrix Hair ..)

AND -----> The horror happened ! Dynamics is a nightmare for me there .

The 2 characters of my movie have

#1 : SHort combed hair (but still needs to react to collision sometimes)

#2 : 8 - 12 cm  hairs ...messy . Granted it's springy and stiff.. but not completely !! So I need dynamics ... but it's no working in anyway. The only way I was able to achieve something correct was by removing gravity ( and it will cause problems with the rest of the simulation in MassFX ..as it's not realistic for real life objects ..)

Do you have an idea ?

Can I send you video of the old tests (with Hairtrix )...

 

PS : I' also a teacher in a 3D school in PARIS (MJM graphic design >150 3D animation students !! ) and I'm testing Ornatrix to see if it's robust enough to deploy in the school .

Sincerely

 

Jean-Pierre ABITA

 

 

Now

Hi Jean-Pierre,

Thanks for the details. I downgraded to V5 and the only problem I was able to reproduce on my test scene is the jittering when using Auto Wisps with the Long Spring Hair preset. I created a ticket and someone will be investigating this ASAP. However, the jittering is eliminated (or reduced almost completely) if I increase the Hair Density parameter in Physical Properties to 3.0+, please try this in the mean time. This parameter will change the shape of the hair though, alternatively, play with the Damping (Drag) curve and reduce the damping in the tip of the hair, this solved the jittering problem for me.

Don't worry, we will help you finish your short film by solving the hair simulation issues. Fortunately I was able to reproduce this one, please give us some time to address this.

 

Jeordanis Figuereo (Social Media Manager, Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.)

Btw, Real-Time simulation it's working for me on V5 too, I will try Max 2016.

Jeordanis Figuereo (Social Media Manager, Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.)

Thx ! Your help and comments are truly appreciated ..as you know.. even a short movie is a marathon ..and 6 years is a hell of a Marathon !

.. I'll try the HairDensity trick...

I'll also post as soon as possible a comparison with SAME scene in max2012 (Hairtrix)  and max2017 (Ornatrix)

Hi,

I've posted a quick walktrough on the quick & stable results with max2012 & Hairtrix on youtube :

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I've talked to Ivan Kolev from DDAG ... He kindly lend me a copy of HairFx FOR 2014-5-6-7-8 ! ... i'm testing it... works very well .. but as soon as you use Ornatrix ( 4 & 5 ) in conjunction .. max crashes .. Frown

Here's the link to the rest of the comparison...

I've talked to Ivan Kolev again.. I understand HairFx are not *real* proper dynamics... but its so effective for short hair that I guess it would be an excellent alternative to add to "the mix" in Ornatrix...

ZtbAal57qpw