Summary

Title:Ornatrix v8, Adding new sinks to Surface Comb sets all existing sink's length to zero.
Category:Workflow
Status:Open
Posted By:adamwalkerfilm ( Adam Walker )
Date Created:2 December 2024

Problem

Description:

When I open my working scene and add new sinks to a surface comb, all pre-existing sinks have thier length set to 0.

This occurs when the Surface Comb modifier is above HairFromGuides or below it in the Modifier stack.

I am using Ornatrix 8.1.7.35022, 3dsMax 2021.1

Attached is a test scene that hopefully demonstrates the problem.

Steps to Reproduce:

Create a sphere, add the Feathers preset.

drag the surface comb below HairsFromGuides (this step could be skipped)

add sinks to the surface comb modifier. save and reset 3dsMax.

Open scene then add new sinks in the Surface Comb modfier.

All pre-existing sinks now have their length set to 0.

 

Attached Files:

>SurfaceComb_SinkIssue_02.max (409600 bytes),

Also when set individual sinks Length Multiplier property to a number other then 1.0, these changes are reset when next the 3ds Max scene is opened.

Hi Adam,

I tried with the latet nightly build (35334) and I could not reproduce it. I tried with Surface Comb below and above Hair from Guides. Tried resetting Max and rebooting it.

 

The sink's length remain as expected. Can you please update Ornatrix and try again?

Jeordanis Figuereo (Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.)

Thankyou for having a look at this. Using the latest Nightly build, my problem seems to still exist even making a new scene and following the steps I outlined above.

Attached are some screen shots illustrating my steps. 

Are there any logs or such that may highlight a conflict with other existing installed plugins? There are Ornatrix messages being logged to the MAXScript Listener, but nothing that would suggest an issue.


Attached Files:
Image 1Image 2
>3dsMaxVersion.PNG (16536 bytes), >OrnatrixVersion.PNG (40299 bytes), >reset.PNG (97635 bytes),

Update: If I BOX the surface comb modifier into a groom, the Sink's maintain their Length Multipliers.

Do you have another Max version that you can try? Just to rule out the possibility that it is related to the Max version. 

Jeordanis Figuereo (Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.)

The studio where I work currently only has 3ds Max 2021.1 and the project I'm working on has a deadline quickly approaching. Are you able to test using 3ds Max 2021.1?  

In your scene you have the Surface Comb algorithm set to "Mesh Vertex". Any reason you're not using the default "Triangulation" algorithm? That one works correctly.

Where did you set the lengths? Are you referring to the actual length of the sinks inside the viewport, or the per-sink length multiplier value?

Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.)

Unfortunately I only have access to Max 2022 and above. 
I wonder if something in the max settings can be the cause. Can you try resetting your settings(delete the settings folder but create a backup first)? 

Jeordanis Figuereo (Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.)

I still have 2021.3.14 installed (that's probably the last update of 2021), not 2021.1, and I can't reproduce it either. I load the scene, create a new sink in Surface Comb, but the existing sinks do not change.

 

Ivan Kolev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.)

E-mail: ivan.kolev at ephere dot com

Discord: ikolev

Thankyou for all the replies.

@Jeordanis Figuereo,
I tried resetting 3dsMax preferences following the manual guide here: i.e getting max to remake the ENU folder. I tried this on 2 separate computers both running the same Windows OS and 3dsMax 2021.1. The issue still persisted.
https://www.autodesk.com/support/technical/article/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Resetting-3ds-Max-3ds-Max-Design.html

@EPHERE, with the Surface Comb algorithm set to "Triangulation" the Sink property 'Length Multiplier" does not change the strand length; only if its set to Mesh Vertex. This property is not really explained in the 3ds Max docs, and the Maya docs suggest that Mesh Vertex is the recommended method.
https://ephere.com/plugins/autodesk/max/ornatrix/docs/8/Surface_comb_modifier.html
https://ephere.com/plugins/autodesk/maya/ornatrix/docs/3/Surface_comb_operator.html

@IvanKolev, I see that there are later security patches for 2021 which we could try as listed here:
https://help.autodesk.com/view/3DSMAX/2021/ENU/?guid=3dsMax_ReleaseNotes_updates_html
But as this will not be a small task to upgrade our render farm; I will proceed with the work-around of Boxing the Surface Comb modifier into a groom for now.
Also note I had issues with Surface Comb crashing the 3dsMax Backburner Network Submission, but this was also fixed by boxing the surface comb into a groom within the modifier stack.

I'm inclined to think its a 3dsMax version issue.

When I get time, can try the upgrade of 2021.1 to the latest 2021.3.17, but this will most likely be a next year task.

Kind Regards.

This is more likely caused by our code than 3dsmax, so maybe switching to the next nightly build that we are currently trying to produce (but it's getting delayed) may help better than upgrading 3dsmax.

 

Ivan Kolev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.)

E-mail: ivan.kolev at ephere dot com

Discord: ikolev

Please try nightly build 8.1.7.35380

Ivan Kolev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.)

E-mail: ivan.kolev at ephere dot com

Discord: ikolev

The latest nightly build fixed my Network Submission crash, but the Surface Comb's strands still forget their assigned Length Multiplier Values. My workarounds for this are either using length texture maps or Box surface comb into a groom.  

Kinds Regards.

I thought that the issue was that the length of the sinks controllers(the arrows) was reset. above you mentioned the length multiplier value. Did I misunderstood the issue?

Jeordanis Figuereo (Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.)

Sorry for any confusion, this is two issues:

problem 1: When open an existing scene and add new sinks to a surface comb, existing sinks (arrows) all have their Length Multipliers set to 0.

problem 2: If I set individual sink(arrows) Length Multipliers to a value not 1.0, when open the scene next they are all reset back to 1.0

see attached screenshots illustrating problem 1.

I brought up problem 2 as they seem related to me.


Attached Files:

>SurfaceComb_CreateNewSink_after.PNG (222829 bytes), >SurfaceComb_CreateNewSink_before.PNG (233168 bytes),

Thank you, confirmed both problems, happens in 3dsmax 2024 as well.

 

Ivan Kolev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.)

E-mail: ivan.kolev at ephere dot com

Discord: ikolev

The new nightly build 35404 should fix these.

 

Ivan Kolev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.)

E-mail: ivan.kolev at ephere dot com

Discord: ikolev

Thankyou, tested the nightly build 35404 and this has fixed these problems.

<span>Really appreciate the time and effort of your dev team to solve these issues.</span>

Kind Regards.