Hi Marsel Ive just tried replicating the material creation error on my home machine and I can do it here aswell. I think the issue arises from picking 3d procedurals from the dropdown menu, rather than type searching the map you want. Im not sure if it has anything to do with the mat editor renderer - but i was on mental ray (as its my default). The exact steps I took when creating the material is: -Right click>create>materials and textures>materials>mental ray>arch and design -Drag out diffuse map node -Navigate on dropdown to 3D>Noise -Drag out bump map node -Navigate on dropdown to 3D>Cellular I tried using the search box to apply the maps and it seemed to work fine. Hope this helps - Sean. |
| Hi Sean, Well I think at last we have a winner :) I've followed your steps exactly and got a memory exception this time (although it wasn't a 3dsmax crash). I will investigate this right now and report on the status. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Good stuff! Im glad its not just my crazy computers! Yes its a memory exception on that one, the crash on the wrappers loadup is different. Also, when i plug 1 bezier float node into 2 values I called it a crash (although it is not) as the error will keep popping up memory exceptions until you force close 3ds max. |
| Ok should be fixed in next build. Not sure about wiring the bezier controllers (I just tried and it worked here) but maybe it was the same error. Please try this to see if it works in 1.3.2 (out tomorrow or day after). Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Last night at home I tried using bezier floats on multiple values and it all worked fine - so lets chalk that one off. On a non bug related issue I was wondering if you know how i could use a controller to multiply a variety of values? For example I would have 4 values eg, roughness, glossiness, bump amount, rounded corner amount - set to 2,4,6,8 respectively. Could i plug an expression into all of these that would multiply them by x? So x=2 and they would change to 4,8,12,16. Im not knowledgable on expressions and all that jazz - still learning maxscript fundamentals at the mo. Thanks, Sean. |
| Hi Sean, I believe you'll need 4 expression controllers, and each controller plugged into its own as X variable. Then you'd simply need to set the expression to X*2. Thats off the top of my head of course. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Hi Marsel
I've got Zookeeper back on my work machine, and i'm afraid to say the loadup crashes have returned - it won't be any other plugin as ive worked for a week with no zk and no crashes.
In spite of this I'm liking the many improvements you have made to the plugin in just a couple of weeks - its really evolving fast, and I'm excited to see where it'll end up! I especially like what you've done with the rename window and the layer manager is now much more functional. I'm also pleased to see some hinting of a render state manager - which I look forward to (im hoping its some kind of pass management) - any news on when it might be ready?
I also managed to wire up an expression controller that would scale up all values i plug it into - and i love this kind of feature. It means i can scale u/v tiling on 5 different maps, as well as procedurals and anything else i desire - all on one value. And after tidying it in some composite node - i basically have a full material scale composite node that i can plug into anything i wish. This is where zookeeper shines blinding rays of efficiency right into my eyes!
However, I do still think the layer management could be improved significantly - this is mainly because I'm used to using the onion, and it is a very smooth operator. I think the fundamental difference is that the onion has all the layer functions in the layer manager window. This means that you have full control of layer management without the need for a lister on screen at the same time. This is also why I find assigning a toggle key for the layer manager alone very handy indeed - i pop it up and hide some layers - then toggle it off. Also commands like 'add to layer' when you right click on a layer are excellent in the onion, but Zookeeper has a put object to current layer and this function is in right click menu on the lister window - and sometimes you want to organise layers without fiddling with the active layer or opening up a lister.
I hope this doesn't seem like I want a layer manager built for my needs exactly, but I was hoping for scene management that has the onion layer functionality but with more. I've started photoshoping a combo of the onion and zookeeper's best features merged into the holiest of layer managers - ill post it up for a laugh when its done, and i obviously wouldnt expect you to drastically change the layer manager like this, but it may show some good ideas that could be implemented into zk.
Cheers, Sean. |
| Hi Sean, I've got Zookeeper back on my work machine, and i'm afraid to say the loadup crashes have returned - it won't be any other plugin as ive worked for a week with no zk and no crashes. I will try to tackle this crash issue again in a few days. The major problem here is it not happening with any type of seeming consistency. It seems that the main task here is to find a pattern of when the crashes occur (I initially thought it happened after every Windows startup, but was proven wrong. Then I assumed it happened after every ZK reinstall- wrong again. Any combination of those didn't work either.) Without being able to reproduce it consistently there is not much I can do besides maybe providing an exhaustive file logging feature and seeing what happens when it does crash. In spite of this I'm liking the many improvements you have made to the plugin in just a couple of weeks - its really evolving fast, and I'm excited to see where it'll end up! I especially like what you've done with the rename window and the layer manager is now much more functional. I am really glad you're enjoying the late work on ZK, currently our TODO list, aside from other things, has a lot of 'ironing things out' in it so the treeviews and their functionality are a big target. I'm also pleased to see some hinting of a render state manager - which I look forward to (im hoping its some kind of pass management) - any news on when it might be ready? If all goes well then it will indeed be a pass manager (although it won't be called that since what we planned can be used in many more general cases). Can't really say when it will be 'complete', I'm implementing it using the 'small increments' methods. The first versions of it should appear within the next few builds and something much more functional should happen by 1.4 or 1.5. ... This is where zookeeper shines blinding rays of efficiency right into my eyes! Really happy to hear that, now we need to convince the rest of the world! :) However, I do still think the layer management could be improved significantly - this is mainly because I'm used to using the onion, and it is a very smooth operator. I think the fundamental difference is that the onion has all the layer functions in the layer manager window. I do agree there can be many beneficial changes to the layer manager and I am willing to work more in getting it there. 'Small increments' in improvement is the key here so I will try to add some fixes and improvements with every build. This is also why I find assigning a toggle key for the layer manager alone very handy indeed - i pop it up and hide some layers - then toggle it off. Toggle keys would have to be assigned manually through actions menu, however, there is no way of just displaying the layer manager ATM. I plan to add some MXS exposure of ZK's GUI in near future so perhaps that will enable certain things like only displaying separate parts of ZK based on different toggles. I've started photoshoping a combo of the onion and zookeeper's best features merged into the holiest of layer managers - ill post it up for a laugh when its done, and i obviously wouldnt expect you to drastically change the layer manager like this, but it may show some good ideas that could be implemented into zk. That is awesome! I look forward to seeing anything that you can show. Its always very helpful to see mockups (1 mockup = 1000 words) and I really appreciate any suggestions from your side. Cheers! Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Hi Marsel, Your latest build " Updated to Max.NET 1.9.5 which should, hopefully, resolve infrequent startup 3dsmax crashes on Windows XP" I think you can change "should, hopefully," to will - at least from my end. I suppose I can't say 1 day with no crashing is definative - but its looking pretty likely that you've resolved it. Nice one! ps (superonionkeeper is still in the photoshop lab - its coming on). |
| Hey Sean, Great, looking forward to your mockups! The crashing bug was very elusive (I could only reproduce it by shutting of my XP machine for 1 hour or longer) so I'd like not to take any chances, but really glad that it resolved it for you as well (from my tests no more crashing occured after the fix here). Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Hi Marsel Attached is my layer manager suggestion mock up. Hopefully you'll see what im getting at - which is a functional blend between the scene explorer and the layer manager. The main issue is that the two often step on each other toes in terms of functionality, but both coexisting in the same interface usually ends up with a cluttered interface. My main intent was to get these two tools working together in harmony - simple layer manager, with deep functionality when needed. Obviously its one thing for me to show it in graphical form - the real magic is getting it to function like that, and that is where you may be able to help. Cheers, Sean.
Attached Files: |
| Thanks for the mockup Sean I will go over it and note some features (I already see a few very useful ones). One question- why do you prefer the 'button' layout over a standard tree layout? How is it different (other than using Max's rollouts instead of actual tree items)? Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| I think its probably just my personal preference, but i find it clearer to see which layers are visible (and thats what i think is my most used function in the layer manager - show/hide/freeze. Everything is used less frequently so Ive tried to adjust aesthetics to match my most commonly used features). The rollouts aren't instead of the actual tree items - it is as well. The rollouts are to store groups of layers, where as once you get into the layers you can have full hierarchical management as in zookeeper. The rollouts just provide key functionality across a group of layers - its just a way of visually separating the top layer of control and the lower levels of control. It also means you can look at a load of smaller tree views, rather than one giant one. |
| Hi Marsel, I've been trying to use the new state sets in zookeeper to set up pass management - which is really a great new feature in zookeeper. However, we have stumbled into an error. On our machines, when mental ray is the active renderer we get an exception error when trying to record changes. When we use scanline, everything is fine - but under mental ray, everytime we hit record we get the error. Using max2009x64, zk build: 1.4.2.36924. Thanks, Sean. |
| Hi Sean, I will try on 3dsmax 2009 to see if I can reproduce this. If possible, could you please paste the error text here or perhaps make a screen shot? That would be very helpful. Thanks! Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Ok, got it reproduced under 2009, will fix for next build Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Great, thanks Marsel. The state sets thing is really cool by the way, we are hoping to use it to set up a mental ray main pass, hairfarm pass using scanline and a zdepth as well. Although the possibilites go a lot further than this.... One thing we were wondering is whether it would ever be possible to export some of the state set data? For example setting up a state for the mental ray pass (setting up the renderer) and possibly scripting the object to be hidden, and which lights to be on, and exporting this to be used in another scene. As long as the pre and post scripts worked on any scene (so that the state set wouldnt store any scene specific names of objects/lights), the renderer information and environment/effects info etc could theoretically be saved out (as the function names in the scripting shouldn't ever change). Is this something that sounds possible? Cheers, Sean. |
| Glad you like the new functionality, Sean. Sound like what you're asking for are the State Sets presets, which are planned a little further down the road. The idea would be to grab any state set and create a 'template' from it (much like in schematic views) and be able to create an instance of this state set in a new scene (ie. your example or something like an 'Ambient Occlusion' predefined state). Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Excellent, I look forward to it! |
| I know that one thing Max is certainly lacking in is a more capable frame buffer. Integrating that would be quite a thing (I think). I'd settle for a really capable RAM Player. More than 2 channels, or something I can save many renders into like a flipbook like Maya's. Maybe something that would keep track of some of my render setting data. If I render elements out then getting a multi channel RAM Player would be great!
In my day to day, thats one thing that I keep wishing had been improved in Max by now. Just a thought. :) Great work on the scene states! A RECORD BUTTON! GENIUS! |
| Certainly agree with you John on that. The frame buffer is well outdated now. I don't know how ZK would be able to help on this - but Marsel is quite a wizard in the magic that is 'max.net'. I guess that it could be integrated as an addition to the state sets - so that you could store the render of each pass/state in the buffer (and maybe even a very basic alpha compositing option - so for example you could comp your hair pass onto the base pass). Even the basic functionality of the compositor in LPM is pretty good for quickly comping a couple of renders together. Although I would say this is would be quite a tangent for ZK to stray off in - It would be an amazing feature, and I could imagine it being implemented as another tree view - so you would have a render history tree view, which would list all your previous renders - what render settings they used, and you would have options to view the render, or restore the previous settings - and possibly comp them together with a blendmode option and mulitplier. This is pretty wishful thinking - but I like to wonder what could be achieved. For now i've been using bobo's realrenderhistory (which he did in 2002?! - hes well ahead of the game), which is limited but will record your render history and it works prefectly. Theres also R-buffer on scriptspot which is supposedly a maya frame buffer for max - but ive never used it. |
| Thanks for the suggestions guys. Actually we did have discussions on the whole compositing aspect and there are some ideas up in the air. It'd be great to hear some more wishes for the 'render history' aspect, the more specific the better. Zookeeper's goal is to unify things and render passes can be unified just as well as anything else (especially considering that ZK has a full-blown schematic view begging to be extended :)). Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Hi marsel, Ive just installed the newest Zk, and i'm afraid to say i'm still getting the same error when trying to record state sets in mental ray. Ill attach a screengrab of the error. Cheers Sean.
Attached Files: |
| Hey Sean, Just tested on 2009, indeed there were errors. It seems there were two stray parameters that I left off in 2009 only supported in 2010 and up. So much for relying on the 3dmax docs ;) Should be all fixed in 1.4.4 Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Hi Marsel The latest version has sorted out the state set error we were having before - and we are now 1 step closer to using zookeeper as our pass management system. However we have encountered another problem. While we can now set up each pass effectively (and even quicker when the templates feature gets released) - We get a zk error when we load a scene that has had states set up. I've attached a screen of the error. Thanks, Sean.
Attached Files: |
| Hey Sean, I will check this out, will most likely fix for next build. I had to make some changes to states and it seems like the saved/loaded data has changed causing the error. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
