| Please try this: https://www.ephere.com/plugins/autodesk/maya/ornatrix/docs/1/Strands_Flipping_on_a_Deforming_Base_Mesh.html Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| It's still happening to my deformed mesh. Edited Guides jump around if I add something new to the top of the stack. Quad split is set to "Left" on the mesh shape node and the mesh shapeOrig node. I also have "remember root position" checked. At this point using editGuide screws up all my hair work. If I turn Edit Guide off and on the guides are all messed up. Running latest stable version of ornatrix. |
| Changing that option doesn't seem to change anything. In my case, if I delete the edit guides node and create a new one (keeping all the rest of my stack in place) then it works fine without changing anything else so its seems there is some issue with the edit guides node (perhaps something changed from one of the latest updates that casuse this?) This problem occured before when I switched from the beta to the first full release...my guide hairs all moved and messed the whole style so I had to start again. So I have experience the issue of updates messing up the edit guides node. (currently using this in Maya 2016.5 with latest build of Ornatrix) Cheers |
| Sounds like a bug indeed. Can you guys readily reproduce this in a new scene or does it only happen in specific scenarios? If the former is true, can you please specify the steps here or maybe send me a video of it? Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Hi, Well since it seems to be an issue with scenes coming from previous installs of Ornatrix and doesn't happen with newly created systems thus far, recreating it for me doesn't seem possible except in my old/ongoing scenes. I also noticed other wierd bugs such as exra points appearing in the render node radius ramp. I remove it and it comes back later on by itself. Deleting this node and remaking it seems to have fixed it. I am also now experiencing some issues wuth the edit guide node such as: Plant hair tool will not toggle off. I have to save and reload my scene to be able to use the brush othertherwise every click adds another guide as the plant button is stuck on (sometimes it is still showing grey not blue so seems off but is actually still active until I reload the scene. Similar issue with Brush Strength Ramp as above wherby a middle point will always appear at 0.5 value when I leave and then return to the node randomly. It seems deleting and remaking a node fixes the issues hence the idea its something to do with the updating process as a wierd guide issue happened prior. I can remake all nodes easily except edit guides as then I have to redo a lot of combing work which is not an option unless there is a way to copy this data across? I just have one groom I cannott redo again and do not have the option to touch the scalp mesh without the issue. I can translate and rotate it but not deform. I have uploaded a screen grab of my groom before and the after selecting one face and moving it slightly. Cheers
Attached Files: |
| Sounds like there are a few separate problems here: - Edit guides changing the shape of the strands brought in from older builds
- Paint tool not toggling off (have you tried switching to Maya's move tool via W key?)
Regarding the file you attached, try going to Guides from Mesh operator and turning off "Topology Based Orientation". See if that fixes the problem. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Hi yes I tried that also. |
| Would it be possible for me to get this scene, maybe just the scalp? Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Hi, Ok so I tried importing my head mesh as obj into a new fresh scene and created a hair system and am still having the same issue. Doesn't happen on a simple sphere prmitive however... |
| I cannot predictably use an edit guides node at all without it at some point going haywire. It's not dependable at all in any production scene. This is an important node to have and it can take some considerable time to groom an animal for example and then inadvertanly it all goes kaput even while following Marsel's suggestions. Sorry this needs some dev love. I don't have these issues with yeti. |
| I also had this issue happen after opening a scene that I had not changed anything in. I just reopened the scene and had the hair guides all move. |
| Gio, when opening your scene I just see guides which are scattered over the whole head. Is this what I'm supposed to be seeing (see attachment)? Jesse, Edit Guides depends on the incoming guides. If something about mesh (like starting frame) changes which causes guides to be regenerated on scene open it could change the guides. Do you use the "Remember Root Positions" button in GuidesFromMeshNode?
Attached Files: Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| I think we need to find a reliable way to reproduce this problem because from my tests here I cannot see this issue. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| A few questions to help narrow it down: - Are the source meshes in the scenes where this happens animated?
- Do you use the "Left" option for mesh triangulation when setting up the groom?
- Do you use a distribution map in GuidesFromMesh operator?
Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| 1 yes 2 yes 3 yes Starting frame should not cause something like this, otherwise it's impossible to use in an animation pipeline. The guides should not be resetting or scrambling themselves. This should be bulletproof, until then it's completely unusable in production even when following your docs and forum instructions. |
| Are you using the "Remember Root Positions" option too? Problem could also be in the distribution map for guides which, if changes can change the generated guides. "Remember Root Positions" option "cements" the generated guides and avoids any distribution changes down the line. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Hi, yes I used a distribution map after to create hairline (as will prob extrend system to create stubble etc) but I just inlcuded the scene here as is to see the guide change issue. |
| I might need that distribution map as well to see what is "normal". Looks like the scene you sent is also different from the screenshots you posted earlier. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| its a different character. |
| The guieds move if I slightly move any face or vertex. Though this also happened before as I opened the scene randomly and also when I updated from the beta to v1. in case it makes a difference, map attached...
Attached Files: |
| Indeed, I can reproduce them moving. Thank you very much, we will investigate this. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Hi guys, I was wondering if the meshes used in your problematic scenes were originally created in Maya or were they imported from another application? Knowing this might help track down the issues with triangulation that I'm seeing. Thanks! |
| In my case both as my head mesh has had a round trip via zbrush, wrapx and others but the seperate scalp mesh i created for one character was in maya with quad draw and still had same issue. Though not immediately as it did initialyl work for a while...and then it didn't anymore...probably after an update. |
| my meshes come from Modo. Using Remember root positions. |
| There appears to be a Maya bug which causes mesh retriangulation on imported meshes (we tried ZBrush, not Modo, but it could be the same) after import. We raised this issue with Autodesk and hope to hear back from them. Meanwhile, we added a check when adding Guides from Surface the first time which attempts to remedy this by forcing triangulation before any changes are made to the guides. Should be in the next nightly. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Ok going forward but does this mean effectively my other completed hairstyle scalpt mesh cannot be touched or it will mess the groom up. After redoing the hair many times due to bugs I finalyl hav an approved system so dont realyl want it to all go poof. |
| Let me think about best way to solve the existing problem. We will likely have to add a solution which temporarily "detaches" the guides and "reattaches" them once mesh is re-triangulated. I'll try to prioritize this, though it could be a bit lengthy to implement. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| I'll try to not make it go poof in the meantime. I have exported it as a mesh in case. Is there a way to export the hairs as curves? That could be useful. Cheers |
| Yes, you can use the Curves from Strands operator/button. It should be on the shelf. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| My setup cannot go poof either. The look-dev is already validated by the client and now I need to kick out the animation. Old scenes need to just work. |
| You can try converting the guides to curves and then, when the mesh is retriangulated, convert back to guides and ground the strands to the mesh. Hope that makes sense. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| In the upcoming nightly (8330+) I added a new "Detach Roots" button. Using this will detach the roots from the mesh, allowing the underlying topology change, and the roots can then be reattached without losing the styling info. This should be a workaround for this issue. See more here: https://ephere.com/plugins/autodesk/maya/ornatrix/docs/1/Guides_from_Mesh.html#DetachAttach-Roots Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| Hi, Ok cool I'll wait and try that method. Cheers |
| So I have a scene where I haven't touched a thing, only turned off the visibility on 4 of the 5 ornatrix hair systems attatched to my deforming mesh. I saved the scene with a different file name and reopened. I moved a few lights but DID not touch anything else. Then I reenabled the visibility on the hair systems. Anything that had not been visible and now was reenabled had the guides all scambled !!!! |
| Curves from Strands do not maintain proper guides shape. They are all messed up when I create them. |
| Jesse, any way you can reproduce that? Scambled guides can only mean two things: topology of distribution mesh changed, or guide from mesh parameters changed. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| I'm on deadline. I can't use EditGuideShape in anyway where at one time or another it goes crazy. At this point I'm removing it from all my nodes and just making due with surface comb. If I continue to have problems I'll have to abandon your product as I've lost 1 week of billable time chasing bugs. I can't look into reproducing anything until I deliver my project. |
| Fair enough. Without ability to recreate the problem, however, it is very difficult to find a fix here though. We've added the ability to detach roots for the cases where the scrambling happens after scene load, but we do need to find a scenario where object topology changes during the scene reload to fix that. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
| The windows nightly with this new option is not available on my account. Also pretty much anything I do in ornatrix throws an error like this afterwards // Warning: Selected object needs to be a SurfaceCombNode! // or Ornatrix: Control [editGuidesOption_2] doesn't exist or // Error: file: C:/Program Files/Ephere/Ornatrix for Maya/scripts/Stack/OxIsOperator.mel line 11: Unable to find specified node type. // |
| I can see the 1.0.5.8340 nightly up right now. There will likely be an updated version tomorrow morning. Thank you for the warning messages, perhaps these will help shed some light on what's going on. The SurfaceCombNode one is interesting particular, it means you are entering surface comb sinks editing event without having SurfaceComb node operator selected. OxIsOperator warning is also interesting, not sure what to make of that. Marsel Khadiyev (Software Developer, EPHERE Inc.) |
