Production Feedback

 
 
 
Posted by:andyw
Data created:2 November 2018

Hello.

We just finished a spot with a full CG stuffed bear for a big client.  The spot consisted of 25 shots of our cuddly guy. Overall everyone was extremely happy with the final product.  I wanted to give you guys some feedback on some of the bumps we had along the way. But overall things went pretty well.  I will post the post once it airs.

 

ABC Export Vray Proxies

Thanks for adding in the motion blur values in the nightly build.  We created a script so our render farm can export an animated .abc sequence.   We had issues with the motion blur lining up with the animated meshes and didn't have enough time to fully figure out the right settings to get things to line up.  

 

At the end of the day we just had the live system built into our model asset.  From there we attached a point cache for each shot to animate the bear in the lighting scene.   This worked well because it removed the extra step of exporting the fur and allowed us to tweak the groom per shot at the lighting stage.  Being a commercial house... this is probably how we will proceed as it is a big time saver.

 

Multiplier Node

We had a lot of fur jumping\twitching per frame even though we locked GuidesFromMesh and HairFromGuides nodes.  It turned out that having the multiplier node above a clump node caused the twitching.  Once we moved that guy down the stack it behaved as predicted.

 

Curl Node

Another issues we had seemed to be associated with the curl node.  Even after locking the length we had funny growing strands as the character moved around.  This could have been stack order but we ended up not using that node because of this issue.  We used a frizz but below the clump nodes.

 

Clump Node

More of a question than anything, but is there a way to use an EditGuides node to groom the overall clump (the goal strand)?   It's great that you can edit each clump strand to randomize it but having a brush control the add in some variation would be great.

 

Node Presets

Using the node presets (built in maya) to save settings and apply them in other nodes seemed very dodgy and incomplete.  Only some values would be applied and any custom ramps looks like it was ignored. A more robust saving\loading node setting would be super helpful. (with map attachments would be amazing)

 

Some Random Loading Errors

these errors didn't seem to affect the asset or the shot but was more of an annoyance. (see attached images and txt files)

 

Automated way to copy and insert nodes

I needed to copy a EditGuides node that was a per shot custom groom and add it to other shots.  I duplicated this node unattached all the connections, and re-attached this node in another scene via scripting the connection hookups.  Having a way to do this built in would be handy and brought along some other baggage. Being able to duplicate it with all the internal data and re-attach to a system would be great.

 

Updating Base Geo

After the initial groom and modeling process we had to update the base geo a bunch.  This is pretty typical in production. Being able swap base mesh operation as an available tool would be very handy.  I have seen the tutorial when moving a groom from one mesh to another but that is very laborious and in this case where the mesh is very similar, having something automated would be great.

 

Vray and Render Settings node

In some back and forth on a previous thread it was determined that the best way to render with vray was to use the legacy "Render Settings Node".  The only way to create this is though a script. Not a big problem but since this node isn't really deprecated and still needed for vray I would prefer to have a built in way to create this node vs a script.  The main reason is some of my artist are more artist and not script savvy. Maybe a simple "convert" with node to Render settings button somewhere would be handy.

Again, Our client and everyone internally are very happy with the results for this project.  Sorry I cannot name it just yet. But I will soon.

Best

Andy

CG Supervisor - A52\Elastic

 


Attached Files:
Image 1Image 2
>ornatrix_errors.txt (2377 bytes),

Hi Andrew,

Sorry, I missed this post.

 

Multiplier Node: I'm unable to reproduce this issue. Can you please attach a screenshot of your operator stack?

 

Curl Node: Is your character center pivot away from the center of the scene? If so, how far?

 

Clump Node: Yes, you can do that. The Clump Node have an option to create clump from external guides/strands. If you create a second hair object, delete the Hair From Guides and leave only the guides, you can use the external guides option and pick this second guide object to use the guides as clump guides with Edit Guides on top to edit them. I hope that is clear enough.

 

Node Presets: We are working on improving the hair preset storage system. I can't give you many details but it will allow for more flexiblity and storage Ox node settings in it as you described.

 

Some Random Loading errors: I will get back to you on this errors later.

 

Automated way to copying and insert nodes: This is a good idea, we will discuss this. Thanks for the feedback.

 

Updating Base Geo: This has been dicussed internally. We have plans for something like this for the next version.

 

VRay and RenderSettings node: This is because we had to wait until Chaos Group implemented our new Ornatrix SDK. ChangeWidth is already supported in the latest versions of VRay, RenderSettings is no longer necesary.

 

Please let us know when the spot comes out. :)

 

Jeordanis Figuereo (Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.)

Here is the spot.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlP0-1nBrLo

Thanks for sharing Andrew. Looks awesome. Congrats!

Jeordanis Figuereo (Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.)

excellent post and reply thankyou.

I'm wondering was any progress made with Updating Base Geo. We are evaluating Ornatrix currently, to move away from yeti and this feature would be heavily leveraged in our workflow.  cheers

sorry to press for an answer but things move fast in production and we are currently evaluating ornatrix as a feather solution over yeti and have to make a decision this week. I found this thread on the forums which seems relevant to updating base geo to an existing groom, i haven't tried it yet, but I'm wondering if I am missing something else ? thanks for your time Jeodanis

 

https://ephere.com/plugins/autodesk/maya/ornatrix/forums/general/thread_13540.html?

Hi,

You can use the Ground Strands node. It should work well in cases when new mesh is very similar to the old mesh. Basically, add the Ground Strands node at the guide level, then use it to select a new distribution mesh. THe groom may change a bit depending on how different the new mesh is.

Let me know if you have any questions. 

Jeordanis Figuereo (Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.)

thankyou. I have taken a look but cant see how it works to update geo . How would it work in the case of bringing a groom in from another Maya scene ?

this is what I tried. 

  1. save groom from scene 1 
  2. Load groom from scene one in scene 2
  3. delete mesh from scene 1
  4. put Ground Strands node in the Ornatrix stack  ( above guides from mesh ? or edit guides ? )
  5. reconnect new distribution mesh and attach

the groom did not appear on the new geo as I hoped. What am i doing wrong? Is there a video tut somewhere showing this process? 

thanks 

Ground Strands can be used to select and attach a new distribution mesh for the hair. 

I'm not sure what is your workflow but here are some options:

1. Finish the hair and export it as Ornatrix Alembic. 

  • Import the hair in the new scene, make sure to select Ornatrix alembic as format.
  • It will import the hair as an Ornatrix hair object in a BakedHair node.
  • In the BakedHair node you can select the new distribution mesh and attach it. The root positions will addapt to connect and conform to the new mesh, so the groom shape could change depending on how different the meshes are:

2. Using Ground Strands:

  • Import your new mesh
  • Add Ground Strands. The position of Ground Strands will depend on the complexity of your hair stack. I would use it right above the top Edit Guides.
  • Use Ground Strands to select the new mesh, then Attach Roots:
  • Finally collapse the stack below Ground Strands to remove the dependency of the old mesh:
  • https://i.gyazo.com/67d113c17fa103ec49772700d243a94b.png

I hope this helps. 

 

 

Jeordanis Figuereo (Product Designer. EPHERE Inc.)